The public sentiment surrounding the Israel-Iran conflict is highly polarized and marked by anxiety about its global economic repercussions, particularly regarding oil supply disruptions. While a significant number express strong support for Israel's actions, others advocate for Iran's right to defend itself, reflecting a deep concern over potential military escalation and its impact on global markets. There is a strong collective desire for peace, restraint, and hesitance towards further U.S. involvement, alongside frustration about perceived bias in international responses.

Israel

Iran

United States

If they wanted to destroy Israel they could accomplish that by buying an existing nuke for less money than developing their own or by launching enough non nuclear missiles if they have the capacity to launch an ICBM.

Iran is a theocracy but they dont want to be a former theocracy. They understand if they nuke a country their country will get nuked and a large amount of their people and economy lives in Tehran. 

This is called the theory of mutually assured destruction. They want international influence and power. Having a nuke is protection but could never be anything more when other countries have nukes. They are in a region where several countries have nukes (Pakistan and India) abd the US would definitely launch nukes in response l.

They also mostly just currently and previously have wanted nuclear energy capabilities to expand their economy and to become a regional energy provider. Iran is an energy economy. 40% of their economy is electricity and natural gas. They want to expand that mostly.

draculabakula

I think 'our opponents are ontologically evil monsters that aren't rational and can't be treated like normal people' is a very common bit of propaganda to justify treating them less than normal people.

It is absurd to me that you try and claim North Korea is more rational than Iran, especially since it is based entirely on your assumptions about his motivations based on him being a religious cleric.

Hellioning

I can probably name a dozen reasons they might want nukes, and none of them are mutually exclusive. In the modern world, states want nukes. It benefits them a lot to have nukes.

So, I’m not objecting to your “destroy israel” comment, I’m objecting to your “not as a deterrent” part. Those arent mutually exclusive

Altho I will say any modern state that initiates nuclear war had better have enough nukes for everybody if they want to keep existing afterwards. As much as they suck, Iran’s gvmt does seem interested in self preservation

RickyNixon

Well, given the geopolitics of the time - just look at what happened to Ukraine - it is clear that for any country with hostile neighbors, nukes are a necessity if you want to deter trouble. Any guarantee by the nuclear powers is useless as long as the UN veto exists.

This is especially so for a country like Iran which has limited allies - certainly none that would go to war for them.

There's no reason to automatically assume Iran is simply homicidal instead of wanting the option to defend themselves from more powerful hostile neighbors.

Any country that uses nukes as a first strike is fucked. Everyone knows that. Even theocrats. There are religious nutcases who will pull suicide attacks, but those types rarely make it that high in the government. The types that are smart enough to get into power want to live more than they want to kill their enemies.

RavensQueen502

Iran could literally bomb Israel through overwhelming the iron dome as they've shown clearly literally yesterday, and yet they only do so as retaliation and are quite restrained in their targeting. Idk how that signals that they'd nuke Israel if they could, they could do a lot more damage than they do now and simply don't do it

__akkarin

You might be right that they are evil but are they stupid? It Doesn’t matter how nationalistic or anti-israel they are, nuking any country not just israel means that they would be wiped off the map too. This is a bluffing game at its finest.

Your argument seems to be a emotional one meant to manipulate us

dxvviddd

Benjamin Netanyahu is on record since the early 1990s saying that Iran is weeks or years away from developing nuclear weapons. He has had the exact same speech, the exact same type of statements and not a single person has called him out on it, especially in the western mainstream media. In 2002 he gave a speech to our Congress where he said that if you take out Saddam it will have positive reverberations throughout the region. It is a known fact that Israel heavily pushed for the United States to attack Iraq. In that same speech in 2002 he said that we should also do the same thing to Libya, Syria, Lebanon, and Iran.And ever since 2002 there are numerous occasions where he claims the same thing that Iran is years away from a nuclear weapon.

Sitar21

Israel would not be as bold to assassinate Iranian officials, bomb Iranian consulates and bomb Tehran if Iran had nuclear weapons. Israel has shown time and time again to be an aggressive, rogue state in the region who only responds to military might. They

Stubbs94

Look, the Iranian government sucks, but this whole "the Mad Mullahs would nuke MUH WEST and MUH ISRAEL" talking point is utter nonsense. Iran wants nukes as a deterrent, not as an offensive weapon.

DrWaffle1848

I'm not even bothering to read the text past the title. Utter nonsense that Iran would nuke Israel.

For one, that would make the area uninhabitable, the area which the Palestinians plan to have.

Two, it would probably make Jerusalem uninhabitable (if not outright destroyed), which no Islamic regime is going to do. A secular nation might, but an extremist Islamic regime isn't about to hit anything near Jerusalem with a nuclear bomb of all things.

Finally, the Iranian regime isn't stupid enough to risk getting nuked back.

What Iran wants is freedom from foreign interference, and Pakistan is proof that if you have nukes, the whole world will not interfere and will even provide funds to keep you stable, lest the nukes fall into the wrong hands.

Maybe if the US didn't have a very long history of foreign interference, Iran wouldn't be looking at nukes. Just a thought.

-Notorious

If North Korea can keep it in its pants, so can Iran. The thing likely holding them back is the same, if they were to use nukes, they’d get nuked. Iran knows Israel and the US would use nuclear force in relation to any nuclear attack on Israel like North Korea knows the US would strike them if they struck South Korea.

FerdinandTheGiant

given the deep ties betwen the israeli government and the jewish religion would not the same argument be made about why iran can't allow israel to have nukes. remember officially israel does not have them yet.  by your logic wouldn't tehran have a moral imperative against a millenia old enemy in the jewish people to prevent israel getting nukes at any cost?

duelistjp

Back when George w made that axis of evil statement,those in that axis pursued the ability to protect themselves from us.this country is known to invade other countries over lies.Iraq for instance they were named and then invaded.people in this country think we are fighting wars to keep America safe,but in fact we’re fighting wars to make the wealthy more wealthy,at the expense of our young people’s lives.

Powerful-Cellist-748

You are an Israelli saying they want to destroy you while your government is killing innocents. I have nothing against you, but your nation/government is an occupying power killing those who simply have a different culture, belief system, ethnicity, etc. Israel is commiting genicide, and they struct Iran first. They have a right to feel threatened and funding proxy groups is no different then how the US does things. Thats probably where they got the idea from seeing it was done in Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. 

Israel has how many nukes? Iran has how mamy? 
Mutually assured destruction or M.A.D is what leverage another nation to not use them. They protect sovereignty at the trade off of extinction if used, unless the other party doesnt have them. 

Are you aware Israel made statements that if they didn't have U.S bunker missiles they would have needed used their nukes to hit their bunkers?
Does this sound like a deterrent, or does it sound like someone who wants to have continue to have power and will use any means to do so?

To be as blunt as possible your people are involved, and instead of acting with empathy you are acting with fear. Have you considered thinking what a Palestinian child might feel, or think? What an Iranian citizen feels when they see your country building open air prisons and starving Muslims? 

Lastly, you cannot even critque another government when yours is apartheid in nature and actively cleansing an ethnicity. Israel is a theology just like Iran, get off your high horse. Your country has destablized the Middle East, you stole for the things you have(nukes), and now you want to play victim? 

Also before former President Joe Biden left office, we did a display of force and bombed their missile reserves, and enrichment facilities in the mountains of Iran. Was this recent force really necessary as enrichment is such a time consuming process? Did Israel need to kill all Iranian officials and their families? 

I would strongly argue Iran wanted nukes as a means of deterence as for the past 60 some years they have been invaded, controlled, and bombed by foreign powers. They live right next to the worlds second biggest aggressor at the moment, Israel. It makes all the sense in the world to have a deterence and they would lose everything from using it. Also Israel is using biblical quotes to justify their actions, killing woman and children. Iran does the same, so any statement of freedom fights or jihad type shit can be said about Israel as well.

AssignmentMammoth450

CobraPuts

Just look at what happened to any Nation that gave up their weapons see: Ukraine, Libya, Iraq, Syria. 


No one wants to be Gaddafied. North Korea for example having a nuclear weapon means that the US and South Korea will never step foot into North Korea uninvited. Iran was also negotiating with the US for Non-Weapons grade enrichment. 


Coordinating with Israel for this attack has not only shown the Iranians that the US can't negotiate in good faith, but other nations that It would be in their interest To not bargain with the US.


Also free Palestine

Vepper

[deleted]

Yes, and so what?

Israel refused to sign the NPT for 50 years, when Iran had accepted to sign it. So, israel is the first to have dwelled on the "lets have nuke" path. Israel still hasnt recognized officially having nukes to this day, even tho its estimated that you possess 80 to 100 nuclear heads.

In front of the moral you are trying to use, israel is the problem here, isnt it? Refusing a treaty, lying about having them, accusing iran of having it etc..

Israel has been accusing Iran of possessing the nuclear bomb since before I was born, so its one of two things. Either Israel has lied, and therefore they cannot be trusted. Or israel said the truth, yet iran still hasnt nuked israel in over 35 years (Earliest accusations ive found) and them having it isnt that much of a problem. 

Does iran have a will to destroy israel? Sure. But the same way Israel plans to nuke the surrounding countries if they feel like it, it will only come with provocation.

DrummerAutomatic9523

A lot of people’s entire worldview is tied up in believing this, you’re probably one of them as well. I’m not sure there’s any changing it. You fundamentally believe in the validity of western-coded nations like Israel over more sanctioned nations like Iran

weird_mountain_bug

Is this some Israel psyop on reddit right now? 

This is the 4th one of these "Israel is right to destroy Iran" posts on CMV today. Where are the mods? Why so many duplicate posts allowed?

Cartire2

The - likely - main reason they want nukes, is to protect against regime change. 

You’ve had multiple Western-backed regime changes in the area: Afghanistan, Iraq. Syria and Lebanon to some degree, as well as Egypt.

Most importantly, though, you’ve had Western-backed regime change in Iran. The US and UK supported deposing a democratically elected leader to replace them with a brutal dictator, only 70 years ago.

Now combine this, with the rhetoric coming out of the West - remember McCain chanting “bomb Iran” - and the Iranian regime have well-founded fear of being deposed.

What is the ultimate regime change deterrent? Nukes. Look at North Korea. 

I find that to be a much more compelling rationale, than believing the Iranian regime will attack Israel with nukes, also dooming themselves. 

redthrowaway1976

Which country has openly threatened to destroy the entire world again? 

Past-Coach1132

Why is there a surge of pro Israel posts flooding the CMV today?

Is this the modern propaganda mechanisms lol?l

CrowdSourcer

If Iran were to acquire and then launch nuclear weapons at Israel it would be a collective act of (jihadist) "martyrdom" because not only would Israel nuke Iran, so would the United States (in all likelihood).  Therefore, there is no threat of Iran developing nuclear weapons because if they really were delusionally fixated on "jihadist martyrdom" why would they wait until they get nuclear weapons?  Wouldn't Iranian martyrs be a major problem the world over?  I mean, I assume there have been some - and they have funded Hamas and Hezbollah - but to be delusional fixated on "jihadist martyrdom" would probably produce a lot more direct acts by Iranians.  Additionally, Iranians are Shi'a Islam and Sunnis are the ones who produce the overwhelming majority of "suicide bombers" and the like - Al Qaeda, ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas are all Sunni.

It's quite possible Iran wants nuclear weapons to deter a potential invasion to take their 4th largest oil reserves in the world and it is quite possible Israel and the US don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons so they can't deter a potential invasion to take their 4th largest oil reserves in the world.

Not that I support the Iranian regime - I just don't believe the narrative.

TrueSonOfChaos

You worry that Iran wants to destroy Israel.

We know for certain that Israel wants to destroy Iran. More importantly the USA wants to destroy Iran and has had a plan to do so using Bibi and Israel since 2009.

[https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/06\_iran\_strategy.pdf](https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/06_iran_strategy.pdf)

Chapter Five.

So the death and destruction that Israel and her people are causing and suffering is because the USA is using Israeli incontinence to further US hegemonic goals.

Iran wanted to be left alone. It hasn't been seeking nuclear weapons. If it had been it could have had them anytime in the last ten years or so. But knew that if it did that, the USA would directly attack and try to destroy Iran. Even though the USA knows even a nuclear armed Iran can't reach the USA. Says so in the paper I cited. Iran does not have the necessary long range ballistic missiles.

Israel sees Iran as a threat because Israel choose to govern people that did not consent to Israeli government. So Israel committed the Nakba and has been fighting a rebellion against Israel's rule for 77 years now.

In spite of Israel's aggression Iran did not attack Israel.

Israel preemptively attacked Iran, just like the USA maneuvered Israel into doing following the plans drawn up in 2009 to use Bibi and Israel's population to incite a war with Iran.

Please read the policy paper. Chapter five is remarkably consistent with current events, and was written sixteen years or so ago. Because all this has been planned by the USA.

BlogintonBlakley

Iran seems to be more level-headed and forward thinking than Israel. Consider Israel's many, many, many efforts to draw them into conflict and get the US to destroy Iran for them. Iran has correctly assessed the situation, the provocations, and the consequences, and kept themselves from being drawn into things. 

This alone demonstrates more coherent and realistic politics than Israel engages in. 

I don't like theocracies, I agree they're bad- but we are currently seeing that democracies don't guarantee much either. And Russia isn't making a great case for the autocrats either. 

Sure, the *next* mullah might be worse, and this one might go senile before he dies and who knows what will happen then- but all of that applies to any other government.

CosmicLovepats

This whole thing reeks of propaganda. Nation states have no morals. The use for nukes from smaller nations has never been aggressive but defensive. Libya gave up their nukes and the US ousted their regime in less than a year. The Iraqis gave up any way to get nukes and we watched the US do the same thing to them. Ukraine gave up their nukes on the agreement that Russia would respect their sovereignty with the aid of the US and now they're being invaded by Russia (while the US turns it's back on them). North Korea refuses to give up nukes out of fear of the US. The truth is that at the level of nation states the leaders and regimes do not act by ideology but power. What will lose them power and what will gain them power (like poker chips).

Yonsei_Oregonian

Israel attacked Iran unprovoked. Iran has a right to defend itself. This is just Zionist propaganda.

SoftFulfillment

Why is it ok for Israel to have nukes?  Is it to destroy Iran? If US said use those nukes on Iran would they?

I'm not either side just a bystander, I think no country on this word needs nukes, I get the development can be used for electricity USA do iRan might have israel too. Really if one country has one why can't other both sides don't really want to use it, its very hypocritical for country with x to not let anyone develop one when you did.

Country I live in will never build one I'm sure they could but why our people be more outraged to why just to store say we had one, eyes then focus on you.

We need peace if people keep bombing or attacking because they think this could happen nothing will ever stop.

nvcheeko

Mammoth-Priority6916

Iran agreed to a deal that effectively prevented them from developing nuclear weapons in 2015.

Why would they do that if they were hell bent on nuking Israel at any cost?  What are sanctions to the zealotry you're attributing to its leaders?

In March Gabbard disclosed that US intel still assesses that Iran is not developing nukes.

https://jewishinsider.com/2025/03/gabbard-iran-is-not-currently-developing-nuclear-weapons/

Again, strange behaviour for a government bent on collective destruction.

It seems obvious to me that they wanted to be nigh-nuclear, but not actually cross the line unless up against it via a US invasion or some such. Israel may have just tipped them over the line.

scientician

Its way more likely they would launch the nuke into space than directly at Isreal. Launching a nuke in space would cause a global EMP that could take out the majority of the world's electrical capacities. 

I wouldn't be surprised for the theocracy to "want" to go back to a less industrialized planet where they might have a stronger foothold in their region.

imhugeinjapan89

The israelis are the ones with nukes already and theyve been the aggressor in this conflict, committing assassinations and bombings for years. An Iranian nuke would act as a deterrent from israeli aggression.

antisocially_awkward

Iran has been fairly rational in their actual foreign policy and far less belligerent than Israel, on the global stage. Whether Iran would like to destroy Israel, or whether that’s just the usual rhetoric, they do want to live. Any nuclear strike on Israel would undoubtedly bring an equal or greater nuclear strike from Israel and the United States. Iran is almost certainly just seeking a deterrent. 

Your government is expansionist and has to propagandize its population to keep its citizens in line. Don’t believe everything the state and its very friendly media outlets tell you.

alohazendo

I can’t believe people who think this way. Seems so brainwashed. What nuclear country uses nuclear weapons routinely? Russia is a bad actor and not fucked with militarily because they have nuclear weapons. 

It’s crazy to me how much Israel dominates US politics. Watching old videos of Netanyahu speaking to congress in the 90s about how Iran is a year away from a nuclear weapon. He spoke to congress in 2003 i believe advocating for US  invasion of Iraq and how it can stabilize the region. 

Can you set aside your priors and think about this objectively?

DrEspressso

Oh Jesus Christ, this is the third Hasbara post I’ve seen on this sub today

suitorarmorfan

The owning of nuclear weapons has increased exponentially since the 1940s. However, they have never been used against a population since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is because of Mutually Assured Destruction. We were told constantly in the US for decades about the threat of a nuclear North Korea but they have had them for nearly 20 years at this point. When is the last time you worried about Kim launching a bomb? Iran has no interest in actually using a nuke because they know that it would lead to their entire civilization being turned into dust.

dubzzzz20

Since 1985 they have been saying that Iran is months away from developing a nuclear weapon. 40 years of scaremongering and nothing to show for it. The West needs bogeymen to sell arms to the sheikhs and extort oil at favourable terms.  Israel as a bogeyman is good for the sheikhs and mullahs too. They can continue to rule through repression.  All of this happened after the opec oil crisis in the 70s. It's always about money and resources. Nobody gives a shit about anything else. I wish people fought for something else rather than the mundane.

chazthomas

Israelis tend to be very neurotic people. There's no way they could have a nuclear weapon in the possession of an enemy and not completely freak out over it, regardless of there being a chance they would use it or not. 

In that respect, the respect of being neurotic, your response is rational, but giving these reasons are laughable. 

No one would prefer an enemy having nuclear weapons within striking distance. Some people are built to deal with that threat, others will obsessively obsess over it ruining their own mental health and lives.

ManufacturerVivid164

Would yesterday occurred if Iran was already a nuclear power? The answer is no, and that means it would really act as a deterrent. 

Maybe Israel and USA should try to stop arming and training fundamentalist fanatics for once.... Has anyone tried to stop threatening and destroying the countries around Iran so Iran can stop feeling about to be invaded?? Afghanistan, Irak, Syria and Palestine, might be that Turkey be the very only direction where Iran is not in constant threat....

Zoren-Tradico

If Iran was legitimately considering nuking Israel, Mossad and the CIA would know before many Iranian government elites even would. Tehran, and any potential nuclear weapons sites, would be reduced to rubble immediately. 

If somehow they launched a missile, it would be taken down over Iraq or even possibly still within Iranian air space. 

Mutually assured destruction is the reality for any nation that even thinks about nuking another nuclear power. The Iranian government knows this and they are not going to sacrifice their nation just to take out Israel. They’re a theocracy sure, but they also want to retain their power and their lives. 

Acknowledging all of that, the only potential reason Iran would want to get nukes is to be able to say they have them and gain the power that comes with being a nuclear state. It marginally decreases the likelihood that Israel actually uses their nukes.

xSparkShark

The last time Iran offensively attacked another country was hundreds of years ago. The last time Israel attacked a country was. \*checks notes\* now. And they've been doing it time and time again since their inception. And you think Iran would suddenly not only attack a country unprovoked, but just randomly drop a nuke on it? I get that you're Israeli and are probably subject to more propaganda than most of us here, but come on. Take off the white and blue glasses and see what's really going on. Read about how the Balfour Declaration was signed. Read about your own military policies. Read about the death tolls and timelines from every offensive that Israel launched. Read about the countless lives and families its toxic theocratic Zionist lunacy has destroyed.

so_flayme

&gt;In this context, allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons under its current theocratic regime poses a uniquely grave risk


This coming from a country using every Jew on Earth as human shields for any criticism of their genocide, conflating their fascist regime with every single Jew on the globe and suggesting that any condemnation of the fascist regime is a condemnation of Judaism itself...


Bad hasbara, OP. Try harder.

Repulsive-Spray-195

I believe that Israel is able to act like bully because they have a strong military and a Big US stick under their control. When Iran gets a nuclear weapon, they may punish Israel for their Pearl Harbor Sneak attack, but I doubt they would use a nuclear weapon unless Israel does. Personally, I hope Iran gets a nuclear weapon so Israel  won’t have the freedom to continuously attack their neighbors without harsh punishment.

rkieltyka

Every sovereign state has the right to defend itself. CMV

1BannedAgain

As much as I hate Iran's government (and yours too), I don't think they're as extremist as this.

You are correct in saying that Iran wants to destroy Israel. But it sure as hell does not want to nuke it. 

Because that would mean Iran would be nuked next. What's the point then? Even a government like Iran's has a sense of self preservation and cares, at least a little, about its people.

I think your argument is purely coming from the need to justify and attack that your government initiated this time. And unfortunately right now, Bibi's government runs on war.

Also, this whole "Iran is getting their nukes ready soon trust me in like a few weeks" rhetoric has been going on since 1992.

excuseme-wtf

Iran should be able to have nuclear weapons. It is hypocritical for a nuclear power to tell other countries that they cannot become nuculear powers. The ayatollaha regime has never been particularly bellicose and there is no reason to think that they would have a greater or lesser temptation to use 'the bomb' than any other country.

DrawPitiful6103

Iran's immediate neighbors have all suffered the undue influence of foreign powers. This is a long history of Iran having to fend off being annexed to both USA and USSR's "sphere of influence" and becoming a subordinated player in the area. 

Iran has suffered greatly in the war against Iraq, and have had to subordinate it's own interests due to the wars (plural) conducted by the super powers in Afghanistan. 

Furthermore Iran has suffered foreign-instigated replacement of regime. 

more importantly, Iran has seen that the super powers are very willing to plop their troops and bases in it's area and just do whatever and tell it to shut up. 

Specifically we have the wars in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, where the super powers intervene whilst using Iran's airspace and resources at will. Of specific importance is Iran's forced compliance by the USA in being a corridor for the Afghan Opium trade. 

Iran, while it is committed to trying to pin it's neighbors down through insurrection promoting, and use that to quietly grow, does have from it's perspective a legitimate need for a "US-deterrent" that is actually workable against the USA.

flukefluk

I’d argue that survival is the supreme leaders number one goal. Why would they use nuclear weapons on Israel when that would guarantee a nuclear response. Not to mention that would probably kill a large amount of Arabs as well.  

I’m sure they’ve taken note on how north Korea has been treated since acquiring them.

Isamu982

There is mutual and understandable distrust between the two. I am of the opinion Iran wants nukes to protect itself from Israel. Whether you think they have something to fear or not, what’s important is what Iran believes. It’s been the same for every nation with historical adversaries. USA - USSR.  India - Pakistan.

MaxwellSmart07

I could not think of a country less suitable for holding nuclear weapons than Israel. A country responsible directly for the deaths of over 40000 civilians and indirectly for millions by cajoling their western allies into invading multiple of their Arab neighbours. Can you think of any less suitable nuclear power?

Fresh_Information_42

Iran has explicitly stated many times over that their goal is the total destruction of Israel, and that they are working to make that happen (plans etc). Even if that was all talk with no intention, they made their bed by saying it over and over again. If a nation states they want to and plan to destroy you, then works towards nukes, it would be a failure of the opposing nation to do nothing about it. 

I just don’t know what they expected honestly.

The only way I can change your view is that maybe consider it was a miscalculation of political theatre and was mainly deterrence and internal politics.

Shmeepish

Give it to them let them duke it with nukes win win

doomsday344

Half these CMV posts are Zionist psyops. Please CMV. Iran hasn’t ever had nukes and still don’t have them. What would they gain out of destroying Israel? Can anyone explain to me what they would actually gain. This is the same recycled bullshit every time the “west”/ US&amp;Or Israel wants to attack Iran.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx777

It all boils down to the white supremacist (Israel) being allowed to have nuclear weapons, but not Iran, who should take a lesson from Ukraine and keep their weapons. It's funny that IDF being terrorist is perfectly acceptable. The whole Middle East should be blown up....now fight over dust

Chastity-76

Do you realize that as an Israeli, you're a colonizer or not? Don't you realize that you're the same as the French colonizers on Algeria, some of them born there, and considering Algeria as their country? Your view is not valid as an Israeli. You're the bad guy here. You're the colonizer.

sachouta

To be fair, 10 years ago, they just wanted nuclear power. And the US had a good deal to help keep them on that track and away from weapons. 

One of the many things this country has screwed up in the last decade. Now we’ve given Iran a reason to renew their nuclear weapons program.

jadnich

No one wants to nuke anyone. Having a nuke in today's geopolitics means you can have sovereignty. Iran wants sovereignty, Israel/US wants control of Iran and the rest of the region to fatten their deck of cards. Hence they're claiming WMDs a la war on terror circa 2003

SloppyJoMo

All arguments are moot. NOBODY should dictate which country should/shouldn't have nukes. Especially not the nation's who already have nukes. If Iran attempts and successfully develops nuclear weapons as a sovereign nation, no one has the right to question it.

TheBigShitowski

Having nukes is one thing, using them is another thing. 

Everyone thought Kim Jong Un was going to nuke the world by now, but he hasn't. 

Even dictators are not that suicidal. 

They want nukes simply because it gives them bargaining power against the US. They would use them to try to bully Israel and the US, “do what we want or we nuke you”. They don't have the same amount of money or technology as these countries so the only way they compete against them is through force.

iustinian_

On the surface Iran would be stupid to launch a nuclear warhead from their country if they every got their hand on one. 

Ignoring that, what are the odds that one or two unknown nuclear weapons end up with hamas, hezbollah, or some other radical group. 

I’m sure Iran and other countries would be gleeful as fuck if a nuclear bomb somehow got into Gaza and then detonated in Israel. 

As it stands they have no problems giving g them any other weapon. 

Emotional_Pay3658

The israeli nukes are not in israel, but rather in submarines located far from israel.


If they fire at israel- israel will fire back, and destroy the regime/start ww3.


Basically- iran only loses if they launch the nuke first.

Effective_Jury4363

Well they certainly do now. They’ll never trust the US (much less Israel) to make a deal again. They’ll get one from next door within 6 months. History will remember Obama’s success and Trump and Netanyahu’s psychopathy.

013eander

It's really hard to take this fearmongering about Iran seriously when Netanyahu seems to be doing most of the provocation in the region. I'm no fan of Iran obviously, I'm an atheist and it's a theocracy, but they've had a pattern of not escalating shit beyond tit-for-tat lately that Netanyahu absolutely doesn't. Why am I constantly being told they're the big threat when they seem to be more escalation-avoidant than your own government?

pierogieman5

It's for deterrence. The US and Europe failing to protect Ukraine is exact proof that you can only secure your sovereignty with nuclear weapons. Ukraine is literally evidence that proves Iran and North Korea's arguments. 

Critical_Sir25

No, but it doesn't matter. Words have meaning.  And if they say "we want to kill Jews" but just want to join the Nuclear Invasion Proof Club, Israel has every right to interpret *"we want to kill all Jews"* at face value.

OldschoolGreenDragon

Iran will not wipe out al aqsa(surely those religious fanatics must have no problem with suicide right, but ofcourse they won't do such a harm to their religion) what mental gymnastics will you show us now? It'll only be used if their existence is threatened and that's justified. Now sit down

UnbannableGuy___

And why would Iran launch nukes on Israel that has its own nukes and is essentially US military base? I don’t doubt Iran hates Israel, now with more reasons than before, but I doubt they are actually suicidal.

SuperVaguar

Wait, if israel is getting nuked by iran wouldn’t Palestinians die by an iranian nuclear strike? And the holy city of jerusalem would also get destroyed. It doesn’t make sense for iran to nuke israel.

United-Statement4884

People are living in such delusions—it is stunning. They create their own fantasies in their mind, a hyper reality, and live in that space for eternity. No connection to the real world at all.

sonucan91

Yea, it’s not the west that’s been aggressors in various global conflicts(even amongst themselves) over last century and change. Everyone else are scary boogeymen that need to be bombed.

Bast_OE

When the US gave their nuclear codes to the guy that wanted to nuke a hurricane, they also gave Iran a totally legitimate justification to develop a nuclear deterrent.

Dan_Worrall

Because i simply dont buy your argument, i think iran is in the same position as the countries you listed &amp; aren’t suicidal like you think they are

No_Service3462

your country is committing a genocide and bombing other nations unprovoked. The United States has bombed and destabilize more countries than any nations in the world by far, and they actually have dropped nukes on another country, and you're assuming Iran is the least suited?

Stock-Designer-9723

Dilucc_

In a non end game scenario, all nukes do is allow you to sit at the big table. That is why Iran wants nukes. The rest is saber rattling

attentionseeker2020

The problem will persist forever. You need to win every war, but loose none in order to succeed. In 50 years atomic weapons will be wide spread. Its just a matter of time. Iran will have one, then the Saudis and so on.

Patrick_Hill_One

It’s not only Israel, they view Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc as enemies as well. Basically any Sunni majority country.

SimplyPars

You believe Iran has nuclear capability? Bless your heart. Probably believed it when they said Iraq had WMDs too.

1979tlaw

If we look at it from an empirical point of view, there is very little evidence from history that suggests that countries, regardless of political rule or geopolitical situation, want to or will use nukes offensively.


Recall that many autocratic countries have nukes, including North Korea, China, Russia, etc. Several of them also have neighbours that they would like to see vanish from the face of the earth (e.g. North Korea, Pakistan).


Yet, the only instance of offensive use of nukes came from, well, you know.


You could also turn the situation around: Since the 1980's Netanyahu has pushed an agenda to take out Iran (and Irak and Afghanistan etc), and he has nukes. Why has he not used them?


The threshold for using nukes is **exceedingly** high. This has also been shown in the Ukraine -Russia conflict. Why hasn't Russia used nukes to end the conflict, not even when Ukraine is attacking key Russian assets inside Russia? After all, it worked in Japan.


So, my uneducated guess is that all the talk about how dangerous it would be for Iran to get nukes is mostly propaganda. Quite likely it mostly means that Iran would get better protection against large scale attacks, which goes against the interest of certain actors (who coincidentally are also the most vocal opponents to Iran's nuclear program).

anders_hansson

Israel has embraced MAD and has sub launched missiles and bombers. Their arsenal was estimated at 200 nukes in the 1980s, and is probably much higher, now. Even more, with 50 years of the technology, they probably have multistage weapons (hydrogen bombs and beyond), so each one could be of the city-killer size. 

Israel's nuclear response *will* get through, and every major city in the Arab world will likely be hit by multiple weapons. 

Iran, should it finally build a nuke, will have a handful of Hiroshima -size weapons (fisson-only, tactical nukes) equivalent. Also, should they try to launch a strike, there's a good chance most of those attacks WILL be stopped, for the price of ALL the cities in Iran. Also, with missiles or planes, there's a bright line pointing to who launched the attack. 

The tradeoff is 10 million plus dead in exchange for a NEST recovery site in Israel.

It's suicide. Even Iran's leaders are not THAT stupid. 

The alternative is that Iran hands over a nuke to a terrorist group. There would be *some* plausible deniability, but Israel isn't going to be fooled for more than a few hours. See massive retaliatory strike from above.

A lot of people have an overestimation as to the actual capability of nuclear weapons.

yogfthagen

Israel has 80 nukes. Kind of collapses your entire argument, guy who is definitely not doing propaganda.

ZERV4N

Hahaha! Israel has over 400 nukes and a world class airforce. You're ridiculous and make no sense. 

raouldukeesq

Pretty sure you were right the first time.

At least that is what they *say* they want it for...

Travel_Dreams

I'm from India and used to work with Iran, when its relationship with the West was better.  
On my visits, I got to interact with senior Iranian officials.  
There are two structural problems with the Iranian armed forces.

The country is ruled by unelected clerics. The elected President has little power, particularly on foreign policy. The clerics are ideologically guided and not bothered about the common man - enforcing compulsory hijab is more important than negotiating an end to sanctions. Sanctions are a means for personal enrichment of a few. They supported Hamas when most of the Sunni world did not bother. The clerics tend to make brash statements and make threats they cannot carry out. They don't understand the military, but don't want to listen to feedback, so my sense is the generals tell them what they want to hear.

The armed forces is divided between the regular armed forces, the Revolutionary guards and the Basij (mostly unskilled volunteers).  
The best resources go to the IRGC, who are ideologically motivated but not as professional as the army. If an army general says something is not possible, but a IRGC officer says it is, he will get resources for what is in reality an expensive and ineffective project.

They don't learn from failure. The Houthi missile and drone attacks against ships, has been a disaster. Missiles fired at defenceless merchant ships with little room to move, have not sunk a single ship. Hezbollah's thousands of rockets and drones also caused negligible damage.  
I wonder if anyone told the Supreme leader that the Houthis and Hezbollah failed - or if a 85 y.o is capable of understanding.

Dean_46

Iran is completely helpless in the air. Israel had to refuel on the way to Iran but somehow easily had air superiority over the Iranian homeland including the capital. 

I’m not surprised Israel achieved air superiority, after all they have vastly superior technology. But it’s astounding that Iran literally had no resistance to it. I get that F-35’s probably led the back and delayed any warning from shitty Iranian radar stations, but even minutes after the attack was under way, there was still no sirens.

I guess being a global pariah save for Russia, NK, and some friendship with China doesn’t pay dividends. Iran is a paper tiger unless you are fighting it from the ground, owing to their sheer numbers and advantageous geography.

Sprintzer

Short of somehow taking down Israeli leadership in much the same manner, there’s not much Iran can do to dissuade the notion that Israel has them squarely beaten.

Iran’s proxies throughout the Middle East are battered and weakened. Now even Tehran is proven to be vulnerable. There’s no doubt this is the weakest the current regime has been in recent memory. Whether or not this is a turning point in the regime’s stability remains to be seen.

Chambanasfinest

It was pretty clear after Israel conducted those airstrikes last year that the Iranian air defense  network was nearly useless. And it’s not like a regime whose main mission is to destroy another nation is going to really have a good grip on the value of human life, even the lives of their own citizens.

dan_withaplan

Arash Azizi: “News of the Israeli attacks on Iran reached me in the United States just before 5 a.m. Tehran time. The city had been hit in multiple places, and strikes meant for Iran’s military commanders and nuclear scientists had brought down residential buildings across the city. So I figured my friends and family in the Iranian capital would be awake. I rushed to call.

“To my shock, I woke several of my relatives. They hadn’t heard anything. No sirens had sounded; there had been no rush to shelters. The number of civilian casualties so far seems to be relatively low, but every lost life hurts. Online, the stories circulate—of a young woman who loved cycling and ecotourism, of children found under rubble. I spoke with a friend whose close relative suffered a miscarriage last night, in her eighth month of pregnancy.

“Iranians have the right to condemn Israel for the attacks. But what was their own government doing to protect them?

“Everything about the June 13 attacks speaks to the Iranian regime’s incompetence. Israel was able to hit major nuclear and military sites all over the country in the space of a day. It has taken out dozens of high-ranking military and nuclear officials. The list includes Ali Shamkhani, one of the most powerful men in Iran’s military, political, and economic firmaments. Among other portfolios, he was in charge of Iran’s nuclear talks. Shamkhani was also a longtime commander in the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, the militia that undergirds the power of the Iranian regime. The IRGC lost its chief and several of its top commanders in the Israeli assault. Consider this: The Islamic Republic wasn’t even able to protect its own brass, let alone the people of Iran, to whom it has long shown nothing but contempt.

“The Iranian regime’s utter ineptitude is matched by a record of belligerent action and rhetoric. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was the only world leader who celebrated Hamas’s October 7 attacks on Israel. His state armed Hamas and a host of other militias in the region. For years, he has promised to bring destruction to Israel. In 2018, faced with the first Trump administration, he gave an ominous double pledge: ‘There will be no war; nor will we negotiate with the U.S.;

“In the end, Khamenei was forced to negotiate and still couldn’t avoid war. Although the United States did not participate in the Israeli attacks, Donald Trump is now gloating about their success. The next round of talks between Washington and Tehran were scheduled for Sunday in Muscat; now Trump is telling Khamenei that he should have taken the president’s repeated threats more seriously and moved faster to reach an agreement.

“Israel has only just begun a long campaign—one that it says will go on for at least two weeks. Iran has promised harsh retaliation, but it has woefully few options. The last time its territory was attacked at such a scale was when Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invaded Iran, in 1980. Now the regime appears to be in shock, taking the time to lick its wounds before it acts.”

Read more: [https://theatln.tc/TK8sNAh0](https://theatln.tc/TK8sNAh0) 

theatlantic

To be fair, a significant part of that incompetence is just incapacity as a direct result of sanctions (not that those were unavoidable, but I digress). The fact Iran dosen't have a modern airforce is a major disadvantage and we are seeing the extent of it right now - a relatively far away country with a fraction of Iran's size in both population and land can openly roam their skies and bomb them practically unopposed.  

To be less fair Iran walked itself into this crisis. From the entire Iranian-Israeli conflict which Iran pretty much chose needlessly on ideological grounds, to a nuclear program that only served to freak out it's neighbors and drive sanctions, to the development of and over-reliance on a proxy network that served to further alienate them before overstepping and dragging them into a war they weren't ready for...  

Now they are stuck in a lose-lose situation - if they don't meaningfully push back they will be negotiating from within an intolerable position of weakness. But their capabilities only allow for some ballistic missile barrages that Israel can tank, or interference in global trade which will further isolate them, or pushing for a nuke (which will both isolate them and may not even be enough to deter conventional attacks from Israel - a nuclear power in it's own right).  
As I see it, their best option is to go for a disfavorable agreement with the U.S., hope it will pressure Israel to lay off and let them recover, and re-assess from there.

OwlMan_001

The new “Axis of Evil” are paper tigers. Russia can’t even take on Ukraine, Iran is stuck in the 1900s, North Korea can’t even launch a ship properly. The only real threat to the US/EU world order is China; but again their allies are wet sandwiches.

QwertyLime

It's a leitmotif of armies under authoritarian rule: they can't be too good or their bosses will fear deposition.

Infamous-Salad-2223

Calling it incompetence kind of undermines the tactics and strategy Israel has employed. Israel has done a hell of a job dismantling the entire Iranian system from Hamas, Hezbollah, even internally wrecking Irans AA capabilities. At this point, I’m not saying they can’t respond but it’s probably better to come to the table and make some concessions before it gets worse.

ITSHOBBSMA

Iran's inside resistance is more powerful than people realize. There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of Mossad agents in Iran, actively working in thwarting as much as possible the Ayatollahs.

I mean, literally 95% of Iranians despise the regime and Khamenei in particular, too bad they don't have actual weapons to fight it. The two previous riots ended up in blood with the world watching... You can guess why.

Sputnikboy

I think it's a grave mistake to lump Iran with Iraq and Afghanistan. From a human development perspective this is a much more affluent country, literacy rates and university participation are at Israeli levels and there is a significant domestic manufacturing base. Despite wishful thinking it is far from a failed state. This conflict has the potential to be long and protracted and that is concerning for many reasons.

Snoo_44366

Lack of airforce is their main problem. If they could get their SU-35's with R-37M's it would actually give them the ability to shoot down Israeli F-16's and f-15's.

ahhpanel

Now is the time for the Iranian people to take their country back.

consciousaiguy

I think their “incompetence” is yet to be seen.

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